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134756-the-fall-of-every-mediocre-mmo
Content ---- ---- ---- The problem is not that the Veteran Community cannot handle feedback or criticism. There have been huge discussions about things on these boards that utterly destroyed an idea that was implemented by Carbine and lead to changes or removal even of said idea. The problem we have is HOW people bring up these discussions... Don't: Bring the idea as the all-problem-solving solution Bring the feedback with "can be easily fixed by", it can't trust me. Pretend to be an experienced game programmer unless you got the credentials to back it up Just bash whatever it is you don't like Write "I quit/won't pay" topics. We honestly don't care. Do: Describe what annoys you, why it annoys you, and how it would be better Accept that you might be wrong/have a skewed look on things that others might not like it You can discuss things without being aggressive or abusive | |} ---- ---- ---- Devs only listening to the core players is exactly the problem I am trying to raise. The core playerbase of this game is clearly not enough, if they are moving to a F2P game. This is 100% F2P not even purchase the game and have no sub so they obviously need more players. If the problem was that people couldn't afford games then we would not have FF14 being as successful as it is (even with the dated sub model). The difference is that FF14 is polished and fun. It feels smooth, is easy to pick up, and engaging. Yes, they had to completely revamp it (I played the original and it was BAD) but they listened to their fans (also, yes it helped that they have one of the most successful IPs of any RPG but they still made a solid game). Anyway, yes I will probably give it more of a chance but the questing system is boring and I am not the only person to say this. When researching the game before downloading this was one of the major complaints I came across. If major review sites are saying this, it is posted all over the forums, and it is apparent within 15 minutes of playing the game, then it is a problem the Devs should seriously try to at least acknowledge. | |} ---- Levelig in MMORPGS has been ALWAYS boring, you put WOW and GW2 in your list of games, well i have played both of those and the leveling is boring as *cupcake* on both of them, i dont know what people is expecting, but im a new player and i am enjoying this game so much more than those two games, i dont know maybe its the graphics and the music and combined with the path system that is there precisely to give you an alternative to how you aproach the game, i picked first a setler and quickly became bored of the chore to gather materials, so i rerolled as an explorer and now im having fun while i level up, i always liked plataformers and this game somehow manages to be like one, so at least for me that is really fun, something i havent seen in any other MMORPG. | |} ---- ---- You are comparing this game to a tab targeting game with 2.5 seconds global cool downs... really?, i dont even know why people pay for that... oh yeah i know, same thing you are criticizing, fanboyism. Also if you expect a full revamp on how you level up, well you may aswell leave because that will not happen seriously... you can level through pvp if you dislike that much the questing. Edited October 1, 2015 by gengitzu | |} ---- ---- ---- What i would give for an MMORPG without *cupcake*ing NUMBERS... everything is gear and damage and *cupcake*ing numbers seriously, i would like to see a concept of an MMORPG similar to something like what Shadow of the Colosus did in its time, if you look at that game is pretty simple but at the same time the world and game mechanics are so good it felt awesome to be in that world, i dont know but NUMBERS sell, thats the problem, people always want to have the biggest numbers and at its core money and greed is what is limiting this genre and games in general. Edited October 1, 2015 by gengitzu | |} ---- WoW and FF are both tab targetting games with subs that are doing very well for themselves while this game just went F2P, I wouldn't be looking down on them if I were you. I get where OP is coming from, I googled a lot of concerns and questions I had about this game and in the vast majority of threads I read on here, reditt and other places it was full of people like this saying if you don't like it just go back to WoW or another MMO. Not a great attitude to have towards potential new players looking to share feedback on what would help them keep playing the game is it? | |} ---- Yeah and Wow has a boring leveling too like i said, i dont know about FF but its an MMORPG so it probably is, and yeah tab targeting makes you fall to sleep in pve, at least in wow you had many abilities and stuff, in ff14 it seems there is only a few and a global cool down that is so high that you may aswell only see the character auto attack. Those 2 games only exist and are "succesful" because of fans and fanboys, WOW was a great game back in the day not denying that but its not anymore, but fans and fanboys will still play it for nostalgia or whatever reason also lets not forget that WOW its also what it is because of the original Warcraft games... and final fantasy never was a great mmorpg the only reason is known is because of their single player games, bassically this game only exist because of fanboys of final fantasy. And thats why these 2 games can can get out with chargin people a monthly subscription, no other reason, its not gameplay or anything amazing not at all. | |} ---- ---- I am wondering why are you still not a forum moderator. Other than that , you give some really good points most of them people simply ignore them. | |} ---- I understand where you're coming from, but frankly (and sadly enough to say), general discussion is not the place to go. Most people in GD are either Whiteknights or Ragers. Go to the community tab and I guarantee you, someone like me, will give you a reason to keep playing through all the mess. Any person that has been playing Wildstar with a heart at all, realizes we need the new players and we welcome them. Quite frankly, I hated seeing no one on. I hated never meeting new people and Capitols being dead to the world. I'm excited about all the new players and any time someone asks a question about the game, provided they aren't being rude or bashing it prior to asking, I'm happy to answer. I'll have a 30 minute conversation with you through all the lag and hate spamming chat just to make sure that THEY (that one person who was actually nice) can get to know the game better. I personally sit at the Gallows and talk in Zone chat on Entity, I hold conversations and help new people out that have been able to make it in game. For those that haven't made it into game and come to forums I try to help. But their are two sides to a story. If someone really wants a nice reply, don't come into Wildstar forums comparing it to WoW, ESO, FF14 ARR, or any other MMO. That upsets most people. And before getting even a relative answer from someone, don't bash the game because you've had issues. That is where a lot of the hostility from "Veterans" comes from. We hate seeing people bash our game that are just coming in before they even get a reply from someone and jump straight to conclusions. Now I also understand coming in as a new player how frustrating it can be to try and play a game that is having some major issues. I was that frustrated player that joined the day after initial Wildstar launch. I was mad and upset, because I spent my money on the game and I couldn't do anything. I did post on forums and yeah, I got a lot of hate because I said some dumb things aswell like wtf is wrong with this game? WoW didnt even have these issues, etc. etc. I had one person message me and they completely changed my thought process. I shut up, I waited, it got fixed and I have played the game ever since and I love it. I love F2P and I love the new population. I'm not saying you said anything wrong, however your post gave me a perfect opportunity to write this. So I apologize if it seems it was directed towards you. In no way was it meant to be. But to finish this off, If someone comes on the forums and politely asks for help, or politely posts a concern or problem, they will indeed get a reason to stay and possibly the help they are looking for. If someone comes on the forums and bashes the game and bashes the problems, they will get fired up and raged on. Tone and context make all the difference. Sorry this has gone on for so long. See you on Nexus, Tau (Find me ingame on: Gomar Quickdraw : NA PvE Server Entity ) Edited October 1, 2015 by Tauware | |} ---- ---- I'm not sure how long you have been playing or if you have suggested anything to improve, but more than likely what you think needs to be improved has been brought up as usually that is the case. Also this game has changed a great deal since it was first launched so changes do come. If you are someone who just installed and started playing and figured you don't like something and it needs to change, perhaps you can due that with a more thought provoking post than the one you provide above. Some of your words indicate that you are pre-engaging posters and this will get the desired effect you do/don't want. If that makes any sense. You do make a valid point to a certain extent, however what you come in game and suggest they change I'm sure 9/10 has been suggested before. My suggestion would be to play for a bit, learn what the core problems are and list core concerns followed by suggestions that might help and the reasons behind those suggestions. Do not make inflammatory headings (though it does draw a crowd) as it only leads down one road and it never seems to turn a negative thread into a positive one. Also I find that reputation matters as well, if you are just another "Stinky Joe (Teen Titans)" off the street spouting words of hate and it should be's you are going to get nowhere with anyone as your tone will seem more absolute and not indicative of someone who wants to change the game for the better but as someone who wants what they want and damn everyone else. Post positive, helpful, constructive thought provoking material and let that reputation build into something that people can latch on to and get behind. -Song | |} ---- ---- ---- Care to give an example of what in your mind "feels new, exciting, engaging, innovative, inspired...." compared to this game? That would help so I don't get accused of being a "white knight" if I dare disagree with you. | |} ---- A fuzzy chua should never have that power!! | |} ---- ---- ---- There is literally nothing wrong with tab targetting, the majority of MMOs use it in fact and with good reason. Just because you use tab to select a target does not invalidate the rest of the combat or make it less skillful, I've played games with and without it though and have no strong preference one way or the other. I'd say I kind of like GW2's soft tab targetting the most though, but it has other problems with its combat at a large group level that prevents me from enjoying it fully. You are highly, highly deluded if you think WoW's rampant success (the majority of players these days probably haven't even heard of the RTS) and FF's complete turnaround from a dying game to a more stable, even growing population is due to "fanboys" and not them doing the right things design wise, feel free to keep sticking your head in the sand though, its why this game died in the first place and its attempt at a revival isn't doing much better. | |} ---- I know you hate hugs, but *hug* | |} ---- Tab targenting in pve is a good way to get some sleep thats all. Well for starters the one that is delusional is you, WOW is dying dude, slowly but it is, there is never gonna be such a thing as the "wow killer" it will die slowly just like its dying already, wow success first was because of old warcraft games and because wow in fact was a great game years ago and when it released was the shit, these days not anymore and the only reson people play that game is because they are fans with nostalgia that hope for something ( i dont know what) or pure fanboys. | |} ---- This specifically needs more attention right now | |} ---- ---- ---- Yes, let's turn the one thread that really discuss the issues of the game into yet another "waaah i can't connect" one, because there aren't enough of those. Good job, Tanad. | |} ---- ---- Being a forum moderator on these boards is the last thing I want to be.... I've done customer support for games 3 years. NEVER AGAIN | |} ---- The one that's bleeding subscriptions? The one where the next expansion is more recycled content and is so uninspired that even its devs looked embarrassed when they unveiled it? Yes, it's mediocre, because expectations have increased and games aren't meeting them anymore. The fact that it is still considered a reference of the genre ten years later illustrate what I was saying: MMORPGs are stagnating. | |} ---- But... but... we all want the fuzzy chua to yield the unworldly power of moderator! As for MMO well..... like Eleris said , they are stagnating. | |} ---- Always found it kind of funny that its not only reference, but will single handedly be the reason mmo's just cease to exist one day, at least RPGs. For instance, Rift tried to copy them but added a few differences, first few weeks "make it more like wow or we will quit" so the devs listened, watered down some things, simplified way too much, "this games to much like WoW we quit" Same with SWTOR. Problem is every game released trying to do something new, and people obviously want it, thats why WoW loses a few million subs every single time. Then the vocal minority goes all Jekyll and Hyde and demands the things that made them come in the first place be changed. Devs can't really win anymore and i can't really blame them for being safe, they just made a game that cost tens of millions, sometimes hundreds of millions and if they fail, that game on their resume will almost guarantee they never work in the industry again. | |} ---- The leveling in this is so much better than other games because it is actually a challenge compared to other games. Having played just about every MMO out there, including newer MMOs that have come out in the last year, I can say without a doubt that Wildstar still has the best game to offer because everything else out there is a stand-still, rotation based, bore fest with repeatable content that isn't even fun. At least with Wildstar you can enjoy yourself without slaving away the hours, and even when you do you are greatly rewarded. Aside from all of the the end game content in this is like no other game out there and to compare this game to any other out there is borderline arrogant because their battle content bores the living hell out of me. | |} ---- That's not why they are risk averse. There aren't that many experienced game developers around, especially who worked on large projects, so experience is much more valuable than whether the projects you worked on were successful (it might be different for game designers, depending on the reason their previous projects failed). The risk aversion is because the people who approve the gargantuan budgets to make those games want to be proven that the odds of success (and ROI) are good, and the only way to prove it is to show them the sales number from similar games that have been successful. Do you find it more or less challenging than tying your shoes? | |} ----